Ivan Čukić

dr Ivan Čukić

Author of "Functional Programming in C++", KDE developer and Free/Libre software enthusiast

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Always on an activity, or all. You asked for it.

Published by Ivan Čukić in the KDE development: Activities section, on 18 May 2012

There is one feature whose implementation got dragged out for quite a while now, and gets requested with each new release of the KDE Workspace - being able to tell an application always to be shown on all activities, or on a specific one.

The reason for this taking so long is that KWin <-> Activities relationship started in the era when I did the activity manager related things (aka /the under the hood stuff/) while Chani connected them to Plassma and KWin. She is not working on KDE anymore, so these areas got a bit forgotten.

Now, the feature will be finally available in KDE SC 4.9.

Comments:

lhugs
Cool one. Maybe I'll try activities again after a somewhat failed attempt some weeks ago :)
At last！Kwin 窗口规则将终于可以将程序直接绑定到Activity | I, KDE
[...] At last！Kwin 窗口规则将终于可以将程序直接绑定到Activity Posted on 2012/05/19 by csslayer 5 visits [Translate] https://cukic.co/blog/2012/05/18/allways-on-an-activity-or-all-you-asked-for-it/ [...]
Luis
This is something I have been missing for a long time. Great work. Thanks a lot.
TZ
Little offtopic:
Which are status of activities encryption now? Looks like it's not ready yet.
bash
Great news!! Can't wait 4.9beta1 :) Thanks!
Lindsay Mathieson
Excellent.
Ivan Čukić
@<a href="#comment-27261" rel="nofollow">TZ</a>: Encryption itself works. But I don't feel it is tested enough to have an UI in 4.9 :)
So, it can be used, but not for ordinary users.
I might write a blog post about it.
john
Are users really expected to use these dialogs? I thought activities had the purpose of making life simpler... :/
TZ
@<a href="#comment-27264" rel="nofollow">Ivan Čukić</a>: >I might write a blog post about it.
Yes, please.
Ivan Čukić
@<a href="#comment-27265" rel="nofollow">john</a>: Your point? If the user doesn't want to use this, she/he will not. This is a feature requested *by users*, not by me. Implemented exactly like requested.
john
@<a href="#comment-27267" rel="nofollow">Ivan Čukić</a>: Well, IMHO, this feature is for advanced users, who want to fine tweak their system. For general users these dialogs look quite scary - there are just too many items in them, and I wouldn't be surprised if they are only seldom used. An average user expects that things just work. I like the idea of activities and I try to use them in my every-day work. However, currently (4.8.3), they are barely usable - e.g. each time I login I have to assign each window to the correct activity. IMHO more effort should be put into making the concept easily accessible. Aside from my (hopefully constructive) critique, I'd like to thank you for your work and I hope you'll consider my notes :)
Ivan Čukić
@<a href="#comment-27277" rel="nofollow">john</a>: Yes, this is for advanced tweakers.
There is a big problem regarding the issue you're having - there is no way to save windows you had open to restore them properly. No way - not as in "we don't have it yet" - but "there is no way to force 3rd party applications to obey us".*
The only solution to the restart problem is not to restart - I started using suspend/hibernate and I have to say that the life is so much easier now :)
-- * more details: Chani tried to use the standard X session protocol which allows applications to save the state on logout and to restore them on the next start. The protocol is not meant to support multiple sessions, so the implementation is/was buggy (and I don't know whether it works any more - never have used it).
She had a very nice idea of envisioning a new protocol... but it all remained an idea. Not to point fingers, but even if the protocol was implemented by us, some other big DEs would just ignore it.
What I want to do is to try to do this the other way round - we can save which documents belong to which activities, and when an application (for example Okular) tells us that it opened Foo.pdf, we'll be able to automatically send it to appropriate activity.
But this can't happen any time soon. Certainly not for 4.9. This is why we need dialogues like these. :/
Tomáš Trnka
@<a href="#comment-27279" rel="nofollow">Ivan Čukić</a>: I'm running ~3 activities concurrently and more or less the windows appear where they should on login (i.e. it places the correct konqueror/konsole window into the correct activity). However, where it fails is windows available on multiple activities (either several selected ones or all activities) - this doesn't seem to be saved at all and the window is placed onto a single activity upon next login.
Is this a bug I should report, or a known limitation due to the things you mention here?
Ivan Čukić
@<a href="#comment-27281" rel="nofollow">Tomáš Trnka</a>: Yes, while session stuff can (not in all cases) work for applications that are inside one activity, it is impossible when one process is in multiple activities.
I say /one process/ because if different instances of the same program run under different activities, it will (should) work as expected.
So, for now, this is a necessary limitation.
Ivan Čukić
@<a href="#comment-27375" rel="nofollow">Michail Vourlakos</a>: That would be awesome.
I agree, I used to do things separately and the integrate them into the main code as well, so that is not a problem.
hoodie
Hey, do you think there will be a way to have different numbers of workspaces in different activities? current switching activities makes you jump between the last used workspaces. Some Activities I use with only one workspace. Others with many
What do you think about that?
bye Hoodie
Links 21/5/2012: Linux 3.4 Released, Dream Studio 12.04 | Techrights
[...] Always on an activity, or all. You asked for it. [...]
Ivan Čukić
@<a href="#comment-27305" rel="nofollow">hoodie</a>: That's a nice idea - don't know whether anyone will be brave enough to tackle it. It would need a big patch to KWin.
Michail Vourlakos
@<a href="#comment-27305" rel="nofollow">hoodie</a>: @<a href="#comment-27305" rel="nofollow">hoodie</a>: I just want to mention that I work in a plasmoid that tries to handle what you are describing,
project url: http://www.opentoolsandspace.org/en/projects/development/plasmoid-workflow demonstration video: https://vimeo.com/43340669
it will try to handle the situation with VDs and Activities as a complete wrapper by hiding the not necessary VDs in each activity. I know it is not a final solution but I am not so much experienced in order to work direct to kde code.
Regards, Michail
Boerny
Really looked forward for this feature! But still hoping someone does implement a automatic activity grouping. For example: When you open digikam a new activity graphics is started. Then launch gwenview and hugin and these are two also added two the graphics activity. Then start kdevelop and a new activity development is created. For rekonq, firefox an activity internet is created and started. It is still possible to create your own activities from a scratch, but when a certain program is started for the first time the matching activity should be either created or extended.
Ivan Čukić
@<a href="#comment-27312" rel="nofollow">Boerny</a>: Don't expect anything like it for two reasons: 1) We'd need a comprehensive database of applications and whether they are web/graphics/development/etc. 2) It is normal for a task to use more than one group from above. And for more than one task to use the same group.
For example, for development, you'd need the web browser for documentation; while writing an article, you could also need a graphics program to make pictures for it etc.
If activities were only/mainly about the type of applications that are used in it, they wouldn't exist.
The User
By default new windows get placed on all activities, is there a way to change that? I want them to be active only at the current activity (iirc that was the default some versions ago).
Ivan Čukić
@<a href="#comment-27318" rel="nofollow">The User</a>: Strange - for me (master) it is on the current activity by default.
Michail Vourlakos
@<a href="#comment-27374" rel="nofollow">Ivan Čukić</a>: Thank you very much. My approach is rather a proof-of-concept case. To describe the implementation path, I am going to use the activities and tasks engines but for the workareas(VDs) I am thinking storing their structure in a local xml file. Of course this arises integration questions with the current kde implementation.
On the other hand I believe that instead of having an aggressive position in creating everything in the current kde code there is also a second approach for developers that are not in the kde development team yet. Someone can demonstrate the functionality and the workflow one layer above the current kde code (e.g. with plasmoids or visual effects etc.). I believe that this also gives the kde developers the choice to criticize and justify what can be imported in the official kde code.
Thanks a lot Ivan, I wish that the implementation of WorkFlow will continue the timeline path. For example I will try to have a full plasmoid version around the end of September.
Ivan Čukić
@<a href="#comment-27370" rel="nofollow">Michail Vourlakos</a>: There was some small discussion regarding unifying kwin vd+activity management (currently, it is most of the time just duplicated code), which would allow different number of vds per activity.
But I don't think you can expect it anytime soon.
BTW, I'm kudos for starting the WorkFlow. Looks rather nice.

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